allthenotes | [HORSE]

"There will be a lot of reasons to celebrate Van's death," Asch says quietly, "but most of them aren't as personal as mine." That kind of happens when you're dealing with someone trying to destroy the world. "I'm still hopeful about bringing it about personally."

Even if Luke has improved to the point where Van can acknowledge him (something Asch thinks of grudgingly, when he does, and with a bit of nausea that he pushes aside, getting through that part of the thought), the replica still calls Van "Master." His replica is soft, in a way Asch hasn't been allowed to be in years, and Asch simply doesn't think he's capable of killing someone he was that close to. He didn't manage it the first time, after all.

He nods quietly. "I hope Livia might one day, as well... instead of merely parroting back Gaius's 'I saved your life, therefore I own it'." He tips his hand, catching the knife neatly.

"...And I hope you may get that wish. You managed to get away?" If anybody deserved a shot at ending a person like that, it was one of the ones they'd used; It doesn't really matter how Van compares to Gaius on some things, turning people into brainwashed, expendable tools is more than enough to rate them around slavers on Thancred's scale.

"I only wish I had done it sooner," Asch says, some of the anger slipping from his expression. "If I had, then fewer people would have died." He's not an idiot like Luke who will take all the blame for Akzeriuth on himself, but there's still some regrets there.

He shifts slightly on the bed, deliberately not looking at Thancred. "The reason I left was because I valued the lives of others more than I did his approval. If she doesn't have something she values more than him, getting her to think differently might be impossible." That was the problem with the other God-Generals, after all, save perhaps Dist, but only in the fact that his blind loyalty was to something other than Van.

"...The best we can do sometimes is simply try to not repeat a mistake. Wishing to change the past doesn't help much." He knows that one well enough himself, even if his mistakes - and the lives lost because of them - are a very different sort.

".....She has an adopted brother - an engineer and inventor that wasn't completely raised by Gaius; he defected when he realized what was being done with his inventions. Sadly he's not here to continue trying to wean her away from that mold." It would be much easier if Cid were; Hell, even if Nael were there to play the Legatus card again and short-circuit the programming. "Gaius has been dead nearly a year now. She was supposed to have died in that battle as well, were it not for this place - left outside the walls to slow an assault with her life."

"That doesn't mean much. There's plenty of ways to manipulate people away from their families." And oh, that's so bitter that it must be obvious that he's experienced it. He still can't trust his family enough to go home. "And I think I'm the only one Van wouldn't have used as a human shield, if only because he needed my power so badly."

And if there was nothing especially special about Livia, nothing that stopped her from being replaceable... He can see it, so easily that it almost makes him sick. Whoever this Gaius was, it was probably better for him that he's already dead. Asch would gladly vent his frustrations about Van upon the man.

He catches that, a sidelong thoughtful look. "I think Gaius being unable to find a replacement for Cid's mind is the only reason he wasn't targeted more harshly."

It wasn't a dissimilar reason to be in a "protected" position, really; Gaius was still getting mileage out of what Cid had designed before he defected, and the 'replacement' had never been able to match his skill. "She knows she was left to die, but he'd pressed the idea that she owed him a 'debt' for taking her in as a small child so hard that she dismissed it as merely his due." And that only makes Thancred all the more bitter about Gaius. He wouldn't have minded the help; Asch would've been more than welcome to take out a few internal organs in Livia's stead. "I wish I'd been in a position to put a few knives in him at the end, myself."

"It didn't stop him from doing anything short of killing me to 'punish' me for leaving," Asch mutters. One of his hands falls across his stomach, then, pressing down hard enough that Thancred can probably guess what part of Asch's body took the brunt of that 'punishment.'

Then he sighs. "I told her that if she did die for him, then the debt was paid. Hopefully it sinks into her skull."

Edited (wrong icon ahoy) 2016-01-15 02:58 (UTC)

Thancred raises an eyebrow darkly, but there's no sign of surprise - maybe grim resignation of a sort. "I can imagine. Cid is fortunate that it's difficult to send agents into enemy territory for 'punishment'... not that there haven't been attempts. I've gotten a few, and a few others have learned the hard way that he's made a walking weapons platform sentient, and treats her as any other daughter." There wasn't any question that Maggie was a person, even if she was heavily limited in communication options; he didn't doubt that one of these days, Maggie was going to show up speaking because of Cid finally finding a way to build her a voice synthesizer.

Being virtually a six-year-old child didn't mean Maggie had forgotten how to be a very well-armed walking tank, either.

"Even when it does, there is a great deal of unlearning and relearning to do - even for someone raised in the Garlean military, she was exceptionally brainwashed."

The blanket statement about Garlemald likely spoke volumes about the nation as a whole, even outside of Gaius's influence.

Asch actually sits up somewhat at the mention of making a machine sentient, mostly from surprise, but then his eyes fall on the weird marks on Thancred's neck again and he just shakes his head slightly to himself. Other worlds are certainly strange, he's been dealing with that a lot today. He's too confused by the idea to feel the sort of immediate disgust he does in response to replicas, at least.

Truthfully, Thancred doesn't need to add much to give Asch an idea of what Garlemald was like - his discussion with Livia had strayed into politics enough to give him an idea. "I was lucky that way," he says, settling back onto the bed. "The first half of my life was pretty normal on the surface."

Beneath the surface, of course, were the currents of politics that surrounded anyone with a known, major role in the Score, especially one that called for them to die. And Guy, of course, but in comparison Asch has mostly forgiven him - Guy's reasons for wanting him dead, Asch can at least understand, not just intellectually but somewhere down in his stomach. Revenge is so much simpler than politics.

"Fortunate indeed, even if it was only time to grow into yourself before things came home to roost." The foundation must have helped, really; even if it was false, for children little mattered more than having a sense of security and a start on building their own ability to handle things.

"She had a twin sister who was taken by a different Legatus..." It was half idle pondering, running on with the idea. "As much as I've heard little to distinguish Regula van Hydrus from his peers, he at least raised Lucia to be capable and able to think for herself, perhaps too well, as she chose to fake her death to defect to a different home. I've met her, these last few months; she's the trusted and valued second in command of the Temple Knights of Ishgard, and her commander is a very clever and canny man who cares about those who serve under him."

"Having a living family can only help," Asch says. "Especially when the relationship isn't broken." A sister and an adopted brother - Asch doesn't really know what siblings are like, as close as he was to Natalia as a child. Even if he loved Luke like nothing else in the world (and ha on that idea), the two of them were raised entirely separately. "I think she can do it."

He wants to believe it, badly, even if he doesn't understand why, entirely. He doesn't want to see anyone else live under the kind of shadow that he did. But it's more than that, something fundamental about the whole situation that leaves him angry, makes him want to lash out against an army that isn't even there. No one responsible for what happened to Livia is here, and the only one even partly responsible for Asch's life is Dist. As much as he dislikes Dist, Asch has enough restraint yet to not turn that anger on him, because it would kill.

All he can do is glare at the ceiling. "They deserve better. Their whole country deserves better."

"... I think she can as well. I may need more alcohol for the interim, but between Cid and when we can speak freely enough to Lucia to put them back in contact... they will help." He didn't know what Lucia thought of her sister - although recognizing Livia's twin had put new light on Ishgard's stealth-salvage of Livia's old Magitek Armor - but he did want to have faith for the better.

"I hope, once we have brought our realm to where we may push back instead of merely resisting conquest, that we may be able to start. It will be long and hard, even for recently conquered territory, but change for the better must start somewhere." The enormity of how much Garlemald had done to the conquered territories, to the people and the children, was something that didn't bear thinking about, but 'this has to end' was as good a starting point as any. His knife-sharpening had turned somewhat more pensive with the thought.

Asch doesn't quite chuckle at the mention of alcohol, but if Thancred had been looking, he would have seen the briefest of smiles. Dealing with other people's emotions was probably Jade's major reason to drink.

"No chance of taking out the top and pushing revolution that way?" he asks. "Or is there no one who thinks even the slightest bit differently that you can back?" The Order of Lorelei is like that after all, now that the replica Ion is gone. Aside from Asch himself (and his standing in the church wasn't likely to be all that great, these days), Tear and Anise were the highest-ranked individuals with any sense, and they would only be able to manipulate the Order into following Ion's wishes for so long. At least Mohs was out of the way, in a way that made most of the church resent him, no less.

If only it really were dealing with emotions; brainwashing was where he hit needing alcohol.

He flipped the knife, an idle balance-test that involved tossing it in the air and catching it by the handle. "'Twould take an impressive bloodbath; their own politics tend to be rather cutthroat - the Emperor recently died with the two leading candidates for the throne also recently deceased, including the only one that might have leaned less brutal, and for a while there was some quiet while the surviving Legati and nobility squabbled for the throne. One of the conquered cities attempted to take advantage of the chaos, and were razed near to the ground in punishment." He seemed satisfied with the knife, at least, and that cleaning and sharpening hadn't thrown it off any. "Mind, I rather expect a bloodbath will be needed; I doubt most of those involved in the current order there would accept a change, though I weep for the amount of their soldiers that will likely be cut through before that can be accomplished."

Brainwashing without an emotional component doesn't really work, though.

"All the more reason to aim from the top down," Asch says. "Leave the chaos of infighting to the ones who will actually jockey for the position and give the conscripts a chance to get out." He has no doubt that the majority of the front lines are conscripts, in effect if not in name. Livia had said as much, though she probably didn't think of it the same way. "Is there any kind of organized resistance, or is the occupation too new?"

He had a long moment of thinking; there was a large area with large populations. "...Removing the serpent's head depends upon which Legion, how controlled the structure has been, and how close they are to Imperial territory where the fellows of those removed can exert influence." He twirled the knife in one hand. "There are resistance efforts in at least some areas, although they recently chose to make an example of an entire city after its people thought the death of the previous Emperor would cause enough instability for them to throw off the Empire's yoke. The survivors that had been fighting made a long voyage to Eorzea, and have been aiding us in preventing them from moving further in our own land."

He dealt often enough with the Ala Mhigan resistance himself, even if the other continents were hard to get to.

"I can't blame them for trying," he says. "Disruption in the upper ranks is a better time to strike. But it sounds as though the separate groups aren't very organized." That had been their problem on Auldrant, too, in some ways; Noir's people were rarely in contact with anyone but him once Van started to move, and certainly not anyone in government. Luke's people were running ragged trying to do everything and he hadn't been much better. Removed from the frantic pace of it, Asch can admit that the only reason they had any organization at all was the fact that he freely spied on Luke over their connection and Noir's impressive network of spies. "Get something cohesive together, that's probably the best use of energy aside from resisting further conquest."

Thancred flipped the knife into his hand where it vanished, and he rubbed his temples now that his hand was more free.

"...Has there been some explanation to the scale of the Garlean Empire, and the number of nations and peoples that had made up the map before their rapid expansion?" Coordination would help on paper, but it was an idea far easier stated than made into something that would work. "The Ala Mhigan resistance has been working from the northern part of our continent; there is an entire other continent between them and where Doma used to be, with installations that interfere with anything that may work for long-range communication. It's a good idea, but the logistics are not going to be easy to come by."

"That's not exactly daunting to me," Asch says with a shrug. "I'm used to working on the scale of all of Auldrant. It would be hard to coordinate, but I don't think it would be impossible. It just means that any movements have to be planned far in advance, and notice has to be sent to the most distant first."

He's prepared for the scale of the land, Thancred, but the population density will probably blow his mind.

He raised an eyebrow, the knife appearing again as he started arranging the throwing knives into a loose map. "This is Aldenard; it and outlying islands here form the realm of Eorzea. At one time there were six great city-states that made up the Eorzean Alliance; as of this time, Sharlayan has been destroyed-" He indicated the northwest corner - "And Ala Mhigo was taken by Gaius over a decade ago; the Empire has put up a wall with regular aerial gunship patrols between its highlands and the rest of Eorzea." That had a line traced along the Northeast corner.

"This central continent is Ilsabard. Before Garlemald began recreating ancient Allagan weaponry, they were a small nation here in the far north of it; they suddenly boiled over once they had arms and armor that could overwhelm others. There were a handful of other nations there, although I doubt more than small pockets remember them well; Garlemald tends to separate children from families in conquered territories, and raise them taught to serve Garlemald and deride their previous culture."

He arranged the last few into another shape to the east of that. "This is Othard. There were a few groups that managed to slow Garlean advances via summonings, but that did not hold for very long; Doma used to be in the south-east, here. Across all of the Garlean held territory, there are border checkpoints, periodic aerial surveys, barriers to separate territories from one another. There's around two hundred million folk on each of the continents, at least, with the resistance groups typically small, embattled, and often entrenched into paranoia by necessity, as children are encouraged to hand over their own parents if they suspect dissent."

And that wasn't even getting into any old ethnic rivalries or groups like the Ala mhigans who'd mostly closed in on themselves, with little trust for "outsiders".

Midway through the knife "drawn" map, Asch is again wishing that he had something other than the given notebook to draw in; it would certainly make this discussion easier. He sits up to get a better view of what Thancred is doing, his eyes following the weapons with an occasional nod, until it gets to -

"Two hundred million?" he repeats, eyes going wide.

Thancred's pause is brief and dumbfounded; somewhere in his education in Sharlayan was a discussion of factors that impact population growth, and he'd been under the impression that Asch's world had at least something approximating their level of knowledge of medical factors and other technology that would presumably include things like developments in food production and living spaces.

"...Yes. The city of Ul'dah alone has somewhere around six hundred thousand folk within its warrens - Recent upheavals and refugee influxes have made it harder to keep count."

"That's not that much more than Baticul," he says. "But that's a huge population center - there's only four cities of comparable size in the world." Baticul, Grand Chokmah, Chesedonia, and Daath. "But Kimlasca's whole population is around one and a half million, and we're spread over two and a half continents. Auldrant was home to at most ten million before the Hod war."

Edited (wow check ur numbers nai) 2016-02-12 04:20 (UTC)

That explained a good amount of Asch's idea of how to deal with some of their current conflicts, in a way. "More people means things become more complicated to organize... and the cultures and general identities of the city-states vary widely. Ul'dah is the largest of the city-states to our current knowledge - Ishgard may be even, but they've had their borders mostly closed for fifteen years now." He tapped the central-northern area.

"Sharlayan used to be comparable in size to Ul'dah, but when the Empire took the scholars as a potential threat, most of the population retreated off the continent to elsewhere; the few that remained scattered and fled. Gaius bombed the remains to the point that I'm not even sure the landscape would be recognizable now. Limsa tends to fluctuate a great deal, since much of its population are seafarers; Gridania is smaller in population if one goes by the human inhabitants."

Which....actually brought another issue up that led to him rubbing the bridge of his nose. "....And there is the matter of various Beast Tribes, and the dragons of Dravania - groups of races that tend to keep separate from the others on the continent; they're not particularly friendly with the City-States or the Empire. I know the Amal'jaa's city of Pagith'an is a decent size, and the Kobold warrens under O'ghommoro may be larger than Ul'dah."

"More chances to go wrong," Asch agrees, "but also more chances to go well." More people to come up with ideas, and more people to execute them. But his eyes remain wide as Thancred continues to talk population, and thankfully the discussion from before with Murtagh leaves him at least a little prepared for the existence of non-human races. Livia's comment before about Garleans not being like the other people's of her world suddenly makes a lot more sense.

"There are a few sentient monsters on Auldrant, but none have a more complex society than pack structures," he says. "And probably only the cheagles would agree to a headcount, since the others tend to be hostile to humans. Ligers actively hunt human flesh for their young, most of the time." Though the fact that Arietta exists indicates that they're capable of more complex emotions like pity. Asch can't think of any other reason she would have been spared. "And the fonic sentiences in the atmosphere if you count those, but they don't interact with humans very much either."

[HORSE]

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[gets back to this]

\o/

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yeah the factor thancred is probably forgetting is monsters

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and they will have a MOMENT about that

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