[HORSE]

[bloodyashes]

[There is no text in this message. All there are are some drawings of rather strange creatures. After some time, a drawing of a completely different creature is scribbled into one corner.

However, anyone in or passing near Dorm 25 will be able to hear a soft argument between Asch and Murtagh (oneformisery) along the lines of "That's not a horse, it's some kind of monster." "Of course it's a horse! Do you think I'm making this up?"]

Comments

[bloodyashes]

"More chances to go wrong," Asch agrees, "but also more chances to go well." More people to come up with ideas, and more people to execute them. But his eyes remain wide as Thancred continues to talk population, and thankfully the discussion from before with Murtagh leaves him at least a little prepared for the existence of non-human races. Livia's comment before about Garleans not being like the other people's of her world suddenly makes a lot more sense.

"There are a few sentient monsters on Auldrant, but none have a more complex society than pack structures," he says. "And probably only the cheagles would agree to a headcount, since the others tend to be hostile to humans. Ligers actively hunt human flesh for their young, most of the time." Though the fact that Arietta exists indicates that they're capable of more complex emotions like pity. Asch can't think of any other reason she would have been spared. "And the fonic sentiences in the atmosphere if you count those, but they don't interact with humans very much either."

[humble_scholar]

He had a dry laugh. "Well, also different cultures, which can work out very well or mean misunderstandings and conflicts - just within the Eorzean city-states that are in the Alliance at current, throwing a Gridanian and a Limsan who haven't encountered each other's standards before in the same place is almost asking for trodden nerves and conficts...and I think half of Limsa's war with the Kobolds stems from one too many case of a people that play to rules loosely meeting one that believes in exacting agreements."

And the more structured culture there wasn't the human one. "Ironically, the kobolds are the ones Limsa learned to make firearms and cannons from." Some of the goblins helped, too, but it seemed like adding in nomadic groups like them and the kobolds would probably confuse things at this point.

"...There are sentient beings that exist among the Aether, but they ... are usually only concerned with 'their people'."

[bloodyashes]

Asch nods. "There's some cultural difference between Kimlasca and Malkuth, but not usually enough to impair communication. Auldrant's society is composed of the distant descendants of a group of Dawn Age survivors - " By distant, he means several millennia. " - And has long been mostly united by the Order of Lorelei. Yulia City has been isolated and there's some cultural conflict there, but that's in large part due to their 'role in the world' completely breaking down."

Though how they were supposed to observe the world from deep beneath it, never actually seeing the way people live is something that Asch has never been able to figure out. He has a fairly low opinion of most of Yulia City's residents, except Tear (and she was of Hod blood, anyway).

"The only fonon sentience concerned with humans is Lorelei," he says with a little bit of a shrug. "And even I'm not entirely sure what form that concern takes. It appears to be benevolent, for some value of it, but Lorelei could also be considered the consciousness of the Score, and the Score is..." Not benevolent, at least not in the view of those who know the ending in full.

[humble_scholar]

It was fascinating and a little unsettling - even Sil'dih and Ul'dah had developed differently over the course of a few centuries; societies changed just as a normal result of generational shifts, differences in environment, and events, enough that a single church being enough to stave off any major differences implied a degree of control being kept that easily eclipsed the Ishgardian Orthodox Church.

"...There is one being that tends to mind the world at large, but - well, the Mothercrystal is essentially the life-force and memory of the world, and some of my closest and dearest friends speak to her. Very few specifically worship her; the tendency is to show reverence to various other guardians and deities that can vary widely." Between the Twelve Eorzea and some other societies revered, the Primals of the Beast Tribes, and some of the other spirit-worship he'd ran into, there was a spread of religious differences the more one traveled; he was toying with one of the knives on the bed idly, giving a measured explanation.

"As such, different peoples and societies can be incredibly different depending on who founded it, what they value, and how the area develops, down to things one can easily take for granted. A society that values peace and prosperity of community will encourage quiet and conciliation in dealing with others; take that to a place that values freedom and competition, and the folk there will read it falsely as cowardice or a weak will." Which would be the problem in his earlier example with a Limsan and a Gridanian, and was a sort of dispute he'd gotten to mediate out before within some of the adventurers they'd recruited over the years.

[bloodyashes]

"The Order of Lorelei doesn't worship Lorelei, it worships the Score," Asch clarifies, not sure if the point is being confused or not. "The Score read by Yulia most especially, which is about two thousand years of prophecy that's highly specific in some cases, but also fairly self-fulfilling given the nature of the Order working to maintain it."

He's very familiar with those inner workings, more than he's really comfortable telling Thancred at the moment. Most people are not named two thousand years in advance, and most people have not been a part of Oracle Knights Special Operations and played a grisly part in maintaining that order.

"For two thousand years, the ending of the Score was kept hidden, and the whole world believed that it would bring prosperity, except for those of Yulia's descendants who kept the final piece." He snorts bitterly. "Which foretold exactly the opposite, of course. Death of the world in plague. But that promise of prosperity kept the world together, with a bit of help from the Order. I can't imagine how many wars they've instigated and how many people they've killed in the last two thousand years. Perhaps if it weren't for the Score, we'd have a world more like yours." It would have been delightful, some part of him thinks. He would have been able to grow up without the shadow of death hanging in secret over his head, and have an actual political challenge to grow up to, rather than the manipulations of people like Mohs.

[humble_scholar]

His eyes narrow at that with a quiet, unimpressed noise. "I much prefer treating such prophecy as an invitation to find a way to avert disaster, or at least mitigate it." They HAD soundly failed to avert the Calamity, but it hadn't been as bad as it could've been; Bahamut had only been free for a scant few hours, and they knew from van Darnus's possessed ranting that the dragon wanted to raze everything.

"It isn't easy to keep that sort of control over people as a whole; even a well-run and generally pleasant nation will have its pockets of disagreement and dissent, or historical fumbles as history continues on. I imagine it is a wonder your seas aren't tinted red for what it would take to enforce such a thing." It was an oddly thoughtful and cynically bitter moment; as much as Thancred liked people in spite of - and sometimes because of - the inherent flaws and foibles of humanity, he was far too aware of many angles of its darker sides.



((WHEN I EVENTUALLY UPDATE HIM ASCH WILL GET HIM WANDERING IN WITH ONE EYE TO STRIKE UP A CASUAL CONVERSATION ABOUT ISHGARD AND "SPENDING A THOUSAND YEARS FIGHTING A POINTLESS 'HOLY' WAR OVER A LIE B/C SOME ASSHOLES DIDN'T WANT TO OWN UP THAT THEY DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE AND BUILT A RELIGION OUT OF THE COVER-UP THAT CONTROLLED THE LIVES OF THE COUNTRY."))

and they will have a MOMENT about that

[bloodyashes]

"I'm sure that if you added it all up, they would be. The Order has instigated enough wars and other horrible things because of the Score. Rumours say that the seas did run red after Hod was destroyed, but I'm somewhat inclined to doubt that. It dropped below the crust, not into the sea." Of course, most people hadn't had any idea of the Qliphoth when the rumours started, back when Asch was still a small child. He wouldn't be surprised if the rumours had started from the Order itself, to fend off suspicion, along with the rumours of ghosts dragging people down in that part of the sea to keep anyone from observing the massive hole Hod had left behind.

[humble_scholar]

Thancred's frown deepened with a quiet, disapproving noise. "Kill any who fail to fit the 'perfect' homogeneous 'order', then turn the bodies into some sort of example to others, whether by claiming it directly or calling it 'the will of the Gods' to pretend the blood is on other hands." It sounded like this Order was opting for the latter, even if prophecy made for a flimsy sort of shield to hide behind.

"What was the state of this 'Order' last you'd seen, if that is something you are willing to discuss?" They seemed to be comparing notes on discussing horrible regimes anyway.

[bloodyashes]

"No, not even that. The people of Hod were simply unlucky enough to live in the place that was named for destruction." There's a simmering anger in it. "And Akzeriuth was the same. What happens to dissenters, rare as they are, is significantly more discreet." That was his job, after all, Asch is intimate with how that process works. Sniff them out, snuff them out, get rid of the bodies. "The Score said Hod would be destroyed, so the Order pushed things into place to make that happen."

At the question, there's something that's almost a smile on Asch's face. "It's a wreck. All the military leadership has left, the Fon Master is dead, the Grand Maestro tried to form his own order and got what he deserved for everything he's done, the secret of Yulia City is on the map, and the reading of the Score is currently illegal in both Kimlasca and Malkuth. Hard to know how long that will last, but it's long enough to really shake up the Order."

[humble_scholar]

The noise of disgust that came at that was almost a growl, his nose wrinkling in distaste. "I hope that your people manage the momentum to be rid of that." He may not know what all of the titles are but he can guess at some of it. "My own mentor was known as the 'Allseer'; we worked ourselves to the bone and he gave up his life to put a stop to the cataclysm he had foreseen." Louisoix might technically still exist, but for all practical purposes, he was gone; there would probably come a point where some future generation would barely, if at all, remember anything about the man the Phoenix had once been.

"If its control is disrupted enough, then that leverage can be pushed; scatter the military while they have no leadership, make them question their cause, ensure that any truths that would make folk rebel against it spreads as far as possible..." He closes his eyes with a thoughtful frown. "And replace whatever is left in vacuum as soon as possible with a better alternative; that may be your worst risk - folk that are confused and afraid returning to what is familiar because there isn't something else to turn to."

[bloodyashes]

"Most of the political leadership is in favor of it, on account of the fact that the younger generation of Kimlascan royalty took the initiative to actually go out and communicate rather than just sitting back and letting a war happen after Akzeriuth." He's clearly proud of that, though the why of it is unclear. He'd like to give all the credit to Natalia, but he knows that that would be false. "It's the common people who are posing difficulties; without the Score, they're rudderless in a world that's just been through a crisis either way, and is potentially on the edge of another."

So much of the world was still reeling from the descent of the Outer Lands that it was hard to predict what path they would have taken even if the Score still existed, because people were becoming aware that something had been kept from them for a long time. Asch sighs slightly. "As for the Order, it's possible that it will dissolve, and if it does, I will consider it no great loss. The world has no need for keepers like that anymore."